[Twisted-web] Re: [Nevow-commits] r3904 - server-side (fragment) nesting, and convenience descriptor generator

Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone dialtone at divmod.com
Thu Jan 12 08:48:21 MST 2006

On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 02:43:56PM +0100, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> formless is already a different directory isn't it? Isn't that enough?
> I was talking about the repository not the directory. There's a
> directory already: Nevow/nevow, Nevow/nevow is where nevow sits. I'm not
> saying forms should be under the nevow directory, but in Nevow/forms.

Where something is located doesn't matter that much. It's still code that has
to be maintained and supported. Currently I think nobody will fix anything
about formless for many reasons.

> Why should you obsolete formless? It's yet another package depending on
> nevow. It won't get development, it won't get the latest features, but I
> see no need of obsoleting it if there are project depending on them.

Who is going to support it? When you provide a package people expects it to
work and if he finds any bugs they expect them to be fixed. It's not a matter
of features that much, although porting nevow to web2 is quite a big leap and
would require active porting of formless.

> Backwards compatibility matters. It matters in python as much as it
> metters in twisted and nevow. It's not like python provides backwards
> compatibility and nevow can not.

I wouldn't walk this path at all. We are providing backwards compatibility for
nevow versions that are long gone and we will provide it even when moving to
web2. But notice that nevow is quite a bit different than python in many ways.

But still even bigger projects break backwards compatibility (Zope, Python
itself, Cherrypy between version 2 and 2.1, Ruby on Rails itself) when needed.

> It all depends if you're interested in growing the twisted/nevow user
> base or not, if you break stuff without any good reason to break stuff,
> the userbase will walk away to ruby on rails or some other project.

To be honest I don't care that much. I do as much as I can to help people and
to develop Nevow with the time I have available. If people is so stupid to
leave a project because it is evolving to help developing with it then fine, I
don't care at all.

> I'm not talking about the internals, if my cache patches breaks that's
> fine, it's a feature not a bug, but if my app breaks that's annoying.

As I said we will have backwards compatibility code. Worrying about something
that is not even started seems a bit out of place. I have applications that
run on Nevow too and I won't be happy to fix them all indeed.

I hope to not sound harsh, it's not what I mean to be :).

Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now Running MacOSX 10.4
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com
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