[Twisted-Python] Proposal -- Code of Conduct

[David Reid]

I definitely meant "I don't think that should block adoption".

-David

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Glyph <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> wrote:

>
> On Jun 23, 2015, at 1:49 PM, David Reid <dreid at dreid.org> wrote:
>
> So while it'd be nice for the PSF CoC to be updated such that it was
> enforceable I think that should block adoption of a CoC by the Twisted
> Project.
>
>
> I hope that you meant
>
> I *don't* think that should block adoption…
>
>
> unless you meant you thought it should block adoption of the PSF CoC?
>
> In any case, to try to cover some concerns raised so far:
>
> Why the Django CoC rather than the PSF (or, the quite-similar Contributor
> Covenant)?
>
>
> There are two reasons: specificity, and reporting.
>
> Specificity is important because of course, everyone wants to be
> reasonable.  The point of having a code of conduct is outlining what
> "reasonable" means in our specific context.  Given the difficulties the
> software industry has had in the last couple of decades with respecting its
> marginalized members, it's important to take that context into account and
> say what (sadly) might not be obvious to people.
>
> Clarity around how reporting violations works is important because people
> who are already feeling harassed in their day-to-day existence are often
> not going to be comfortable poking around trying to figure out *how* to
> deal with a violation of the code on their own.  Most likely, they will
> simply quietly exit the community.  So it should be as easy as possible to
> report.
>
> Why isn't this a fork of an existing CoC?
>
>
> I agree that this is a problem.  Django does not appear to have their CoC
> in an easily-forkable format.  Perhaps we should contact the Django project
> and ask them to rectify that so that we can make minor tweaks.  We also do
> need minor tweaks, because the information about contact points for
> reporting has to be different for different projects.
>
> I'd also like to raise two issues of my own.  In his original message,
> Moshe said this:
>
> I think, and hope, that our IRC channel, our issue system and mailing list have
> been a friendly, pleasant place.
>
>
> For the most part, I believe this is true, and I think we have managed to
> be a welcoming and pleasant environment for all concerned.  However, I
> don't want anyone to get a false sense of confidence from this, and think
> that we're doing great since we've never had any incidents.  The nature of
> such incidents is to remain private.  In Twisted's decade-plus of history,
> especially on IRC, I have had to personally adjudicate several disputes,
> and we have definitely had potential contributors quietly disappear from
> the community due to apparent hostility or inappropriate remarks.  We have
> certainly had to ban people from the channel, on at least one occasion
> permanently.  There have not been any particularly severe, particularly
> public or particularly recent incidents, but there has definitely been some
> unpleasantness at times. So, while I do believe we are doing well, there is
> unquestionably room to improve.
>
> Thank you all so *very* much for not making me type that as a *reply* to
> anyone saying we don't need a CoC ;-).
>
> Also, I would like to stress that I personally believe that this is a
> 1.0-release type of effort, and in no way a finished product.  I have lots
> of concerns with fairness and transparency in the way disputes are handled,
> and the list of possible responses, but what we have right now (i.e.: the
> personal judgement of whatever committer happens to be online at the time)
> is definitely far worse.  So I expect that the work will continue and we
> will see revisions to this, hopefully in collaboration with other projects
> so that Twisted developers aren't taking this on, Django being the obvious
> example.
>
> -glyph
>
>
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