[Twisted-Python] documentation / kqueue / feedback

glyph at divmod.com glyph at divmod.com
Wed Apr 16 12:05:34 EDT 2008

On 03:42 pm, dr.pythoniac at googlemail.com wrote:
>Yes, I do understand that attitude. I love to have it, too.
>BUT: twisted is having and looking for sponsors, that is, twisted is -
>gladly ! - meant to be a product and not some hackers private delight

Twisted is a project, not a product.  The TSF is part of a non-profit. 
We are looking for sponsors to help the project improve, not payments 
from customers for a working product.  If it were already perfect, what 
would we need donations for?

If you want a product based on Twisted, or training based on Twisted, my 
company (http://divmod.org/) might be able to help you.
>You see, I argue for using twisted. Possibly some of us argue against 
>solutions and, worst case, they risk their ass doing so.

Thank you for doing that.
>Again, I share your attitude and i understand it so well. But, PLEASE,
>understand that I need to get sth. working, that some colleagues put a 
>of trust, valuable trust, into twisted, even taking a risk. That should 
>seen and properly respnonded to, too.

All else being equal, I would prefer that you use Twisted, because I 
like people to use my stuff and like it.  However, if we need to do a 
ton of additional work that we are not really interested in, on a 
timetable that is defined by you... well, that doesn't sound like open 
source work, that sounds like consulting.

If Twisted does not meet your needs at this time, you have two (and a 
half) options:

(1) Fix it yourself,
(1a) pay someone to fix it, or
(2) Use something else.

I suppose if the problem is the documentation, then (1a) becomes "pay 
someone for training".  This is not a roundabout way of saying "go 
away", you really can pay someone for training pretty easily.  I'm sure 
there are others in the community who could help you.  I would certainly 
prefer it if you could buy some training than if you had to walk away.
>I'm not talking about script kiddies. I'm talking about seasoned 
>with a (couple) dozend years in the job.

>We don't need pampering, not even mentoring, practical and welcome as 
>might be. We need realiabilty and a _fair_ chance to find our ways in
>twisted. A reasonable starting point.

I am not trying to be rude, or insult you when I say these things.  I am 
just explaining that there are many people who feel that Twisted offers 
something worthwhile and a "fair" and "reasonable starting point", so 
it's inaccurate to say we don't have one at all.  Maybe you and your co- 
workers are all brilliant and understand the underlying concepts 
perfectly, but simply don't have time to get working with it quickly 
enough because of time pressures beyond your control.

That's fine, and if you can't use twisted because of it, I am sorry that 
the docs were not better.  But if you don't have the time to learn it, 
don't have the time to help us fix the docs, and don't have the money to 
pay someone to help you learn it or fix the docs... well, the situation 
just isn't going to improve in a way that you want just because you want 
it to.

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