[Twisted-Python] Fwd: [Twisted-commits] r11721 - revert r11685

James Y Knight foom at fuhm.net
Sun Sep 19 20:19:42 EDT 2004

On Sep 19, 2004, at 12:30 PM, <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
> twisted/web2 has an unacceptable dependency on nevow that will need to 
> be
> discussed or removed before this subpackage can be added.

First off -- I consider this a rude thing to do, considering I am far 
from being unreachable. What was the emergency that prompted this 
removal at midnight on a saturday night? None? Yeah, that's what I 

> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:07:57 -0400, Itamar Shtull-Trauring 
> <itamar at itamarst.org> wrote:
>> Why is this unacceptable? We depend on pyOpenSSL for TLS support, 
>> etc..
>   The logistical reasons:
>     There is no release of Nevow.

There is. Although it's old. This is a very good reason for not 
releasing twisted.web2. Fortunately, since we have decoupled releases 
now, it doesn't affect anything else.

>     None of the buildslaves have even an SVN trunk checkout installed, 
> nor have any of them been asked to install one.


>     Developers weren't told about this new dependency, so they may not 
> have it installed.

twisted-web ml was. I don't expect developers that don't care about 
twisted web to install Nevow.

> This leads to strangely failing tests, making it difficult to tell if 
> outstanding changes that a developer wants to commit are broken.

I assume you mean "Could not import twisted.web2.test.test_web: 
Traceback: exceptions.ImportError, No module named nevow.". If so,  
"strangely failing tests" is quite a hyperbole.

>   The technical reasons:
>     Nevow imports Twisted.  Therefore, Twisted should not import Nevow.
>     Twisted is the networking framework and the web server framework.  
> It is lower level than the application server and the templating 
> system.  The latter should depend on the former, if a dependency 
> exists, not the reverse.  _If_ it is desired for Twisted to gain 
> functionality from a Nevow installed, Nevow must be careful to only 
> import certain things from Twisted.
>  I would much prefer if Nevow gained functionality from Twisted and 
> not the reverse, but if twisted.web/nevow developers desire things to 
> work as they do currently in twisted.web2, at least the above issues 
> need to be addressed.  This thread should serve to resolve one of them 
> (hopefully Twisted developers are now aware of the potential 
> dependency ;).

Most of Twisted web2 does not/will not depend on Nevow. Generation of 
some server-generated pages does/will. Those tests should just be 
skipped if Nevow isn't installed. That they aren't is an issue, sure.

If you want to have any input on these technical matters I suggest 
participating on the twisted-web mailing list instead of just randomly 
removing code.

Please re-add it.


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