[Twisted-Python] Twisted O'Reilly Book

Sergio Trejo serj_trejo at hotmail.com
Tue Aug 3 01:29:48 MDT 2004

>>Oh yes, and another thought -- what about the company Zoteca in New York 
>>City? Surely they would be interested in a Twisted Foundation, no?
>Mate, are you any of these people? are you Mary? or Tim? or a member of the 
>Apache or Mozilla Foundations? are you Perhaps Mitch Kapor, or Zoteca, 
>whoever they are?

As for Zoteca, you may have heard of one of the awesome geniuses who has 
contributed significantly to Twisted (along with all of the others who have 
made contributions, whom I feel IMHO are all geniuses):


Itamar Shtull-Trauring - Chief Technology Architect
Itamar has worked professionally in software technology development since 
1994. He studied computer science and mathematics at Tel Aviv University and 
is the author of several patents. He most recently served as the chief 
programmer at an Internet startup. Itamar is actively involved in several 
open-source development projects.


I am not any of the people I referred to. I'm just brainstorming out loud 
becuase I've just recently discovered Twisted and I think its the greatest 
thing since sliced bread and so I have a lot of enthusiasm which I do not 
think I am misplacing. If I have inadvertently offended anyone, well it 
certainly was not intentional. And please note that when I asked if you 
would be interested in helping, I never said or implied that I personally or 
the Foundation would be asking you for money or something for "free." I 
don't understand how you misinterpreted me but I'm sorry that you did. I'm 
certainly by no means looking for a handout.

>You can't publically suggest our involvement in your dream, its just not 
>very polite, to say the least. Or do you think to excite us into action?

What is so impolite about asking for your suggestions or feedback or input 
or whatever? By the way, who is "our" in the verbatim "our involvement"? I 
was asking you, but I don't know how you went from "me, Tim" to "our" 
whomever "our" is. Your reaction strikes me as defensive and I don't know 

Anyway, a Foundation isn't about my dream. A Foundation would only work if 
there's enough interest to form one by a group of people in the community. 
If the community is not interested in a Foundation, then I surely won't 
waste my time.

>My last email was possibly taken out of context, I was suggesting that I 
>didn't oppose you going off and doing these things, some of which I didn't 
>think where bad ideas, but you cant expect any help for free, Noone else is 
>interested, or seems to see a need.

No worries. If no one is interested then indeed its all moot.

>>One of the great things about having a Foundation is that it doesn't have 
>>to keep secrets. It is truly open and there are no hidden cards in the 
>>deck. At the same time, anyone is free to birth artificial persons in any 
>>territory on Earth who then can utilize the Foundation but also contribute 
>>back to it. This is why Twisted needs a Declaration of Independence IMHO. 
>>I see no reason why *not* to create a Twisted Foundation for the benefit 
>>of humankind.
>>Imagine, a kid in Africa who has access to the 'Net who is learning 
>>computer science could participate in the Twisted Foundation and 
>>contribute something really cool, such as a new protocol, to the code 
>>base. Or some child in Thailand could use Twisted's Perspective Broker and 
>>Nevow to create some really neat 'net-based agriculture Web service for 
>>the farmers and hill tribe people in northeast agricultural Thailand 
>>(where Internet cafes continue to sprout up). And of course really cool 
>>apps and services could be created by the whiz gurus in the more 
>>modernized countries at the same time.
>>A Foundation is a self serving entity whose goal is to survive independent 
>>of any others who make use of it. A Foundation owes nothing to no one, and 
>>can not be held hostage by anyone. Foundations are good for humanity. 
>>Foundations have need not retain secrets. Foundations do not impose 
>>detriment on others. I can't imagine a world without Apache (yikes, we'd 
>>all be forced to using Microsoft's IIS Web Server).
>I seriously think you have missed the point. Nothing procludes anyones 
>involvment in twisted, its LGPL, and the core developers, let alone the 
>ancilliary ones are from all walks of life/regions of the globe.
>>Any further comments, ideas, brainstorms, suggestions?
>Chill out.

Idea published, but not accepted.

>I think you're insulting people with your lack of understanding, and blind 

If others find me insulting, then let them speak up and if so then I'll shut 
up. If no one wants a Foundation then that's fine. If no one wants a book 
then that's cool, too. "Blind ranting" is not equal to posting some positive 
energy and throwing out the idea of a book and a Foundation. Why such a 
harsh come back from you? I don't understand your reaction. Its the harshest 
of anyone here who has posted in this thread. What is it that I lack 
understanding about? True, I am quite new and don't know a lot about the 
community, but is there anything wrong with being really excited about 
Twisted which I happen to think is really awesome, stellar and well done? 
Does not the community as it exists today want to grow and become larger in 
its expanse and have new people with new ideas coming into it to thus 
continue to evolve Twisted and make it known to more and more of the world? 
Or is the community going to chastise new entries such as me who may be 
green but who believe in Twisted and do find it to be "Networking For the 
Rest of Us"?

>Get to know the community and the project before making wild assumptions. 
>People will take your suggestions more seriously when your credible.

Please list to me what my assumptions are and what is wild about them. 
Thanks for the further feedback.

If you will kindly note that I got excited about the idea of a Twisted book 
as a *reaction* to the following post by Glyph to his blog (is this a wild 


I spoke to Alex Martelli, author of Python in a Nutshell and editor of the 
Python Cookbook. He reminded me that the world does, in fact, need a Twisted 
book, a reminder for which I am very grateful. I think that as a result of 
this conversation a moribund book project may be restarted, and another 
might come into the works. Time will tell.


Anybody who is the author of two O'Reilly Python books sounds pretty darned 
"credible" to me, so Alex Martelli's ideas which inspired Glyph sounded 
enthusiastic to me, so that's how this thread got going in the first place, 
and then the idea of a Foundation sprouted.

Cheers Mate,


>(o_   Timothy Stebbing, Pythonista, Nunatak Systems
>//\    03 6226 6259, tim.stebbing at nunatak.com.au
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