[Twisted-Python] ldaptor feedback

Tommi Virtanen tv at twistedmatrix.com
Wed Jul 2 14:32:37 EDT 2003

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 04:30:40PM +0000, Clark C. Evans wrote:
> I'll name 3 common internet protocols which often in large
> enterprises are hooked up to LDAP...

	Just say "accounts".

	Just about the only use for LDAP anywhere is to store
	users. It's cool. When you have thousands of them on
	different boxes, /etc/passwd gets boring. But still,
	it's only accounts. (The only real exception I know is
	certification revocation lists.)

	But don't overinflate that role. The only reasons LDAP
	is alive are because SQL is ugly, the databases are
	slow and/or expensive, and DNS is very limited.

	Think about it. LDAP isn't used to publish spam blacklists.
	It isn't used to index emails. It isn't used to find files
	in Samba shares. It isn't used to hold email. These are
	all things DNS or databases have been used for (mostly
	unsuccesfully, but that isn't relevant here). LDAP just isn't
	used _that_ much.

>     ldaptor.protocols.wire.ber
>     ldaptor.protocols.wire.request

	So use pushed them into a package and renamed pureldap
	to "request", which is false and misleading?

	s/pure/wire./ might be doable. But ldap isn't request,
	its all things ldappy (everything on the write that isn't
	basic BER).

	But you can't rename a module there "ldap", that's a horrible
	name. Thus, I named them "pure*", for two things: pure python,
	and pure also as in no dependencies; they are perfectly

> | 	There's no way around it. For what is in the Twisted core,
> | 	he wants to have freedoms the LGPL doesn't give him. I don't
> | 	want to donate expected ~30000 lines of python away just
> | 	like that; I want to make him be bound to LGPL, just like
> | 	everyone else.
> Assume for a moment that a foundation (similar to Apache) is
> formed for Twisted.   What characteristics of this organization
> are required for you to be 'comfortable' with the code being
> donated?

	Umm. A moral stand I can agree with. "Sell to the game industry
	if they pay $$$" is not one. Unless I _work_ to create the thing
	sold; I'm willing to sell my moral, but the price isn't what
	glyph/$FOUNDATION maybe one day might give me -- it's a lot of
	money per month, starting right now.

	For pocket money, I prefer to not give my freedoms away; in fact,
	I want more freedoms if at all possible.

	I _want_ the bugfixes $CORPORATION makes.

	Just to clarify: I'm not accusing glyph. I'm not blaming him.
	There is no reason to continue this discussion. In fact,
	he would probably prefer this discussion never happened. There
	is no conflict here. We are in perfect agreement on this, as
	far as I know. If I were him, I'd try to sell Twisted, too.
	And he's free to sell Ldaptor, too. I'm just not giving him
	any special rights to it; you are as priviledged as glyph, in
	that matter.

> | 	Let me repeat myself. If installing one library is too
> | 	much effort for you, you are using the wrong OS.
> I'd rather not have twisted require a package management
> service to download all the third party components necessary.

	Missing the point. Twisted doesn't have to depend on Ldaptor.
	In fact, it never would (I wouldn't want it and glyph won't
	allow it). Your favorite mail reader, written using Twisted
	and the IMAP client protocol in Twisted can probe for Ldaptor
	and enable its address book functions on the fly.

	Can we just get on with the programming? I accept patches.
	Ldaptor isn't hard to install; if it is, I accept patches
	even for improving that :)

:(){ :|:&};:

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