Opened 8 years ago

Last modified 4 years ago

#2372 enhancement new

rename "twisted projects" to "dot products" (maybe?)

Reported by: glyph Owned by:
Priority: high Milestone:
Component: core Keywords:
Cc: thijs, tom@… Branch:
Author: Launchpad Bug:

Description

We didn't really come to a decision to do this, but my default option is to change the name back to what it used to be, for the reasons I've mentioned before.

I'm opening a ticket for a while just in case someone wants to lodge an objection though.

Change History (10)

comment:1 Changed 8 years ago by glyph

  • Priority changed from normal to high

comment:2 Changed 6 years ago by thijs

  • Cc thijs added

dot products sounds akward..

comment:3 Changed 6 years ago by glyph

I think "subprojects" sounds awkward :). "Projects" also sounds weird, because it's really the "Twisted project". Just "Products" minus the dot, maybe? That sounds generic, and if we try to make it jargon-y, it conflicts with Zope's use of it as jargon. I think we need some recognizable phrase or word that refers to these things. Right now they're referred to in a bunch of places as "packages", "projects", or "subprojects".

Originally they were called "dot products" and the dot was actually pronounced. So for example, there was "twisted.web" and "twisted.words". This all kind of falls apart with "Twisted Core", which is a random hodgepodge of the various packages that make "twisted.internet" work, and then add some stuff on top.

It would be nice to eventually organize our package hierarchy so that this would actually make sense in the same way again, but that is a long, difficult, and entirely separate conversation.

Is there a ticket somewhere for the separate, more important task of showcasing the list of subprojects somehow? I think the Divmod front page is a good example of this: there's a great, visually very bold enumeration of available stuff at http://divmod.org/. I hate Trac's search and I can't find it, but I could have sworn I filed one. If you don't know of one I guess I'll open a new one.

comment:4 follow-up: Changed 4 years ago by binjured

  • Cc tom@… added

I definitely think there could be something superior to "Projects" as there are many, many "Twisted projects" out there (not to mention the whole "Twisted Project" thing). "Dot Products" is sorta clunky and "sub-projects" makes them sound somehow less important. It does fall apart with twisted.core, but there's nothing saying that we can't conceptually separate those into "projects" that you just happen to import from twisted.core, as actually changing that would be a herculean task.

I don't know... "Twisted Batteries"; "Twisted Library"; "Twisted Bundles"... this is difficult ;)

I've been mentally trying to fill in this sentence and find something that sounds good; perhaps a worthwhile exercise?

"This project is part of Twisted Foo, a collection of useful, fully-supported libraries, clients, servers and other utilities that come bundled with Twisted."

comment:5 in reply to: ↑ 4 ; follow-up: Changed 4 years ago by glyph

Replying to binjured:

I definitely think there could be something superior to "Projects" as there are many, many "Twisted projects" out there (not to mention the whole "Twisted Project" thing). "Dot Products" is sorta clunky and "sub-projects" makes them sound somehow less important. It does fall apart with twisted.core, but there's nothing saying that we can't conceptually separate those into "projects" that you just happen to import from twisted.core, as actually changing that would be a herculean task.

I don't know... "Twisted Batteries"; "Twisted Library"; "Twisted Bundles"... this is difficult ;)

I don't think "Dot Products" is ideal, but we used to call them that (http://web.archive.org/web/20020525090221/http://twistedmatrix.com/) and for the reasons you've suggested, "twisted projects" and "subprojects" seems a step backwards somehow.

I've been mentally trying to fill in this sentence and find something that sounds good; perhaps a worthwhile exercise?

"This project is part of Twisted Foo, a collection of useful, fully-supported libraries, clients, servers and other utilities that come bundled with Twisted."

I don't understand what "Foo" would be here. Like, "Web" or "Words" or something?

comment:6 in reply to: ↑ 5 ; follow-up: Changed 4 years ago by binjured

Replying to glyph:

I don't understand what "Foo" would be here. Like, "Web" or "Words" or something?

Oh, oops. Twisted Foo refers to the umbrella term discussed here, e.g. "Twisted Dot Products".

My personal preference is for something catchy that gets away from the requirement that the Foo Project is imported from twisted.foo because of the twisted.core discrepancy. You could probably spin six independently useful projects/libraries/whatevers out of twisted.core without breaking a sweat. This would also greatly ease the "Core Documentation"'s burden of having to document Every Damn Thing. Just my two cents!

comment:7 in reply to: ↑ 6 ; follow-up: Changed 4 years ago by glyph

Replying to binjured:

My personal preference is for something catchy that gets away from the requirement that the Foo Project is imported from twisted.foo because of the twisted.core discrepancy. You could probably spin six independently useful projects/libraries/whatevers out of twisted.core without breaking a sweat. This would also greatly ease the "Core Documentation"'s burden of having to document Every Damn Thing. Just my two cents!

The idea was originally to have an independent twisted.internet and twisted.python (etc) except the circular dependency between trial and internet makes that impractical.

The actual origin of the term "dot products" has to do with the fact that it's 'twisted matrix labs' (get it? ha ha.); the fact that most of them are paralleled with a twisted.xxx import was a happy coincidence.

Plus, we could also call "Core" a distribution of multiple related dot-products rather than trying to make each tarball map exactly. After all, independent of release status, it would make sense to have separate documentation for twisted.trial and twisted.internet. That's the way it originally was; we had unrelated areas of functionality for years before we had a separated release.

comment:8 in reply to: ↑ 7 ; follow-up: Changed 4 years ago by binjured

Replying to glyph:

The actual origin of the term "dot products" has to do with the fact that it's 'twisted matrix labs' (get it? ha ha.); the fact that most of them are paralleled with a twisted.xxx import was a happy coincidence.

Hah, gotcha!

Plus, we could also call "Core" a distribution of multiple related dot-products rather than trying to make each tarball map exactly. After all, independent of release status, it would make sense to have separate documentation for twisted.trial and twisted.internet. That's the way it originally was; we had unrelated areas of functionality for years before we had a separated release.

I definitely think they warrant separate docs, which is a big part of the reorganization (ticket forthcoming). As for the distribution clarification, I am curious as to how often Twisted projects are released or downloaded piecemeal. I would never think to do anything but pip install twisted regardless of how much I needed...

comment:9 in reply to: ↑ 8 Changed 4 years ago by glyph

Replying to binjured:

Replying to glyph:

Plus, we could also call "Core" a distribution of multiple related dot-products rather than trying to make each tarball map exactly. After all, independent of release status, it would make sense to have separate documentation for twisted.trial and twisted.internet. That's the way it originally was; we had unrelated areas of functionality for years before we had a separated release.

I definitely think they warrant separate docs, which is a big part of the reorganization (ticket forthcoming). As for the distribution clarification, I am curious as to how often Twisted projects are released or downloaded piecemeal. I would never think to do anything but pip install twisted regardless of how much I needed...

Good. That's what 99% of everybody should do. The split-up distribution is mostly a rhetorical thing at this point; if you think Twisted is too big, well, download a smaller chunk, it damn near fits on a floppy disk, so don't complain. But nobody should think that. So keep installing all of Twisted :).

comment:10 Changed 3 years ago by <automation>

  • Owner glyph deleted
Note: See TracTickets for help on using tickets.