[Twisted-web] Mantissa dead? => Nevow? => web? for person who doesnt want to use django

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com exarkun at twistedmatrix.com
Mon Dec 14 16:02:31 EST 2009

On 08:19 pm, agasson at red-elvis.net wrote:
>On 14/12/2009, at 8:58 PM, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>>On 07:39 pm, agasson at red-elvis.net wrote:
>>>On 14/12/2009, at 8:36 PM, Gas wrote:
>>>>I muck around in twisted and am trying to setup a site for a club 
>>>>would like to use twisted as much as possible because I like it. So
>>>>saw stuff on Axiom and liked that then found mantissa only problem 
>>>>nothing on web on how to get mantissa to work that actually works ..
>>>>So I've lost a few hours trying to get it going with latest svn on
>>>>python 2.5 (2.6 you get normal 2.5 code in 2.6 warnings (ie md5 etc)
>>>>plus axiom/_pysqlite2.py needs to point to sqlite3 otherwise same
>>>>errors) but keep getting the
>>I've just done some work to let Axiom use the stdlib sqlite3 module.
>>This was put off for a long time because of some data-corrupting bugs 
>>the version of sqlite3 in Python 2.5.
>>If someone wants to put together some patches to fix the md5 issue, 
>>around to review them.
>Ok I could do that I think (presume use same method used for twisted 
>9.0 which I willl have to look into to see what they did)
>>>>File "/Users/gas/src/py/twisted/axiom-
>>>>tests/Wiki/xmantissa/plugins/wikioff.py", line 3, in <module>
>>>>            from xmantissa import website, offering, provisioning
>>>>        exceptions.ImportError: cannot import name provisioning
>>I'm guess you tried to follow
>><http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/MantissaWikiTutorial>.  Quite some time
>>ago, I added a warning to the top of that page indicating that the
>>tutorial is broken.  So, don't look at it.
>yeah I know its broken however my issues is the installation of 
>mantissa is broken so even though I am trying to decipher a broken 
>tutorial my installation is mantissa install is broken from setup hence 
>I cant progress. If I could get a hint on what i needed to look at to 
>fix mantissa install (issue in setup that has been deleted form this 
>post)  then maybe I could make progress ?

Here's that error again:
>    raise ObjectNotFound('%r does not name an object' % (name,))
>ObjectNotFound: 'doc.listings.interstore.xmantissa.plugins' does not 
>name an object
>Full plugin list for 'nevow.plugins':
>[<nevow.athena.AutoJSPackage object at 0x10363fe50>,
><nevow.athena.AutoCSSPackage object at 0x10363f750>,
><nevow.athena.AutoJSPackage object at 0x10363fd10>]

It looks like a problem with Mantissa's setup.py.  I assume that's what 
you ran to produce this, right?

I'm not exactly sure what's going on here, but I can sort of reproduce 
the problem, although I get a less informative exception:

  File "/home/exarkun/Projects/Twisted/trunk/twisted/python/reflect.py", 
line 473, in namedAny
    obj = getattr(obj, n)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'listings'

For some reason I also don't understand.  This is indeed unfortunate and 
someone should investigate. :)

However, with Combinator you really don't need to install it.  The first 
time you source environment.py after using "chbranch Divmod trunk ..." 
(which will probably only be after you open another shell), you should 
get axiomatic in your path (also, axiomatic is actually part of Axiom, 
but you get that with your Divmod checkout too, of course).
>>This leaves us with the question of what documentation you ''should''
>>look at.  This highlights a major problem with Mantissa - its near 
>>of documentation.  I don't think anything really exists to help a
>>beginning get up to speed with things.
>>Sorry about that.
>No worries - if I can get past setup issue then I would know errors are 
>my lack of understanding..
>>>>So my questions are - being a twisted and web NOB seeing Divmod
>>>>died/disbanded (I think  6 months ago?) and Mantissa doesnt look 
>>>>its been touched for 2 years, and Nevow??? --- I'm not sure what is
>>>>strategy if you want to develop a web app with twisted?
>>You will probably be able to find some assistance in #divmod on
>>irc.freenode.net, as several people (myself included) with Mantissa
>>experience still frequent that channel.  Additionally, Mantissa
>>development is still underway, although at a very languid pace, so 
>>possible documentation will appear at some point.  The best way for 
>>to happen is for more people to pitch in, though. ;)
>I hear your hint however my help would probably be a hindrance but will 
>try. Need to get off company network to access IRC which is pain..
>>  Divmod may be
>>gone, but Mantissa and the related libraries are and always have been
>>open source projects - anyone is welcome to help, and such help is
>>needed for the projects to survive.
>Ok will I will help if you throw me a morcel on where I should look to 
>fix mantissa setup issue ;)
>>>>Do I continue and try and work out the code for Mantissa (which I
>>>>doubt Im capable of being a programming NOB), try to do it via Nevow
>>>>or go back to JPs web in 60 second tutorial and work out a web
>>>>application from there?
>>Whether the effort of learning Mantissa will ultimately be worthwhile 
>>not depends on what kind of application you intend to develop.  It may
>>be that Mantissa isn't even particularly applicable to your problem
>>space, in which case looking at Twisted Web or Nevow directly would 
>>more sense.
>All it is are some pet projects where I store some data in a database 
>about exercise I have done/planned or club members and that I have 
>authenticated access to some pages that have confidential information 
>(for club) I could probably do it it django but would like to keep on 
>twisted learning curve ie testing before writing
>>Or it could be exactly the other way around.  However, at
>>the very least, Mantissa is quite heavily based on Nevow, so learning
>>Nevow is going to be a benefit to you no matter way.  And once you 
>>some Nevow familiarity, the learning curve for Mantissa might not look
>>so steep.
>Ok so nevow still adds on web ie it has stan and athena, do these sit 
>on top of web or does nevow have its own web implementation?

Nevow builds on Twisted Web, yes.  Stan and Athena are both provided by 
Nevow, and Nevow mostly relies on the HTTP implementation from Twisted 


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