[Twisted-web] Mantissa dead? => Nevow? => web? for person who doesnt want to use django

Gas agasson at red-elvis.net
Mon Dec 14 15:19:06 EST 2009

On 14/12/2009, at 8:58 PM, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:

> On 07:39 pm, agasson at red-elvis.net wrote:
>> On 14/12/2009, at 8:36 PM, Gas wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> I muck around in twisted and am trying to setup a site for a club and 
>>> would like to use twisted as much as possible because I like it. So 
>>> saw stuff on Axiom and liked that then found mantissa only problem is 
>>> nothing on web on how to get mantissa to work that actually works .. 
>>> So I've lost a few hours trying to get it going with latest svn on 
>>> python 2.5 (2.6 you get normal 2.5 code in 2.6 warnings (ie md5 etc) 
>>> plus axiom/_pysqlite2.py needs to point to sqlite3 otherwise same 
>>> errors) but keep getting the
> I've just done some work to let Axiom use the stdlib sqlite3 module. 
> This was put off for a long time because of some data-corrupting bugs in 
> the version of sqlite3 in Python 2.5.
> If someone wants to put together some patches to fix the md5 issue, I'm 
> around to review them.

Ok I could do that I think (presume use same method used for twisted 9.0 which I willl have to look into to see what they did)

>>> File "/Users/gas/src/py/twisted/axiom- 
>>> tests/Wiki/xmantissa/plugins/wikioff.py", line 3, in <module>
>>>            from xmantissa import website, offering, provisioning
>>>        exceptions.ImportError: cannot import name provisioning
> I'm guess you tried to follow 
> <http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/MantissaWikiTutorial>.  Quite some time 
> ago, I added a warning to the top of that page indicating that the 
> tutorial is broken.  So, don't look at it.

yeah I know its broken however my issues is the installation of mantissa is broken so even though I am trying to decipher a broken tutorial my installation is mantissa install is broken from setup hence I cant progress. If I could get a hint on what i needed to look at to fix mantissa install (issue in setup that has been deleted form this post)  then maybe I could make progress ?
> This leaves us with the question of what documentation you ''should'' 
> look at.  This highlights a major problem with Mantissa - its near lack 
> of documentation.  I don't think anything really exists to help a 
> beginning get up to speed with things.
> Sorry about that.
No worries - if I can get past setup issue then I would know errors are my lack of understanding..

>>> So my questions are - being a twisted and web NOB seeing Divmod 
>>> died/disbanded (I think  6 months ago?) and Mantissa doesnt look like 
>>> its been touched for 2 years, and Nevow??? --- I'm not sure what is 
>>> strategy if you want to develop a web app with twisted?
> You will probably be able to find some assistance in #divmod on 
> irc.freenode.net, as several people (myself included) with Mantissa 
> experience still frequent that channel.  Additionally, Mantissa 
> development is still underway, although at a very languid pace, so it's 
> possible documentation will appear at some point.  The best way for this 
> to happen is for more people to pitch in, though. ;)
I hear your hint however my help would probably be a hindrance but will try. Need to get off company network to access IRC which is pain..

>  Divmod may be 
> gone, but Mantissa and the related libraries are and always have been 
> open source projects - anyone is welcome to help, and such help is 
> needed for the projects to survive.

Ok will I will help if you throw me a morcel on where I should look to fix mantissa setup issue ;)

>>> Do I continue and try and work out the code for Mantissa (which I 
>>> doubt Im capable of being a programming NOB), try to do it via Nevow 
>>> or go back to JPs web in 60 second tutorial and work out a web 
>>> application from there?
> Whether the effort of learning Mantissa will ultimately be worthwhile or 
> not depends on what kind of application you intend to develop.  It may 
> be that Mantissa isn't even particularly applicable to your problem 
> space, in which case looking at Twisted Web or Nevow directly would make 
> more sense.  
All it is are some pet projects where I store some data in a database about exercise I have done/planned or club members and that I have authenticated access to some pages that have confidential information (for club) I could probably do it it django but would like to keep on twisted learning curve ie testing before writing
> Or it could be exactly the other way around.  However, at 
> the very least, Mantissa is quite heavily based on Nevow, so learning 
> Nevow is going to be a benefit to you no matter way.  And once you have 
> some Nevow familiarity, the learning curve for Mantissa might not look 
> so steep.

Ok so nevow still adds on web ie it has stan and athena, do these sit on top of web or does nevow have its own web implementation?

>>> Any pointers most appreciated
>>> Gas
>>> PS mucked around and got Combinator going which i liked however if you 
>>> are developing a Mantissa app then combinator didnt work as you really 
>>> needed too install mantissa and all its dependencies so you could get 
>>> access to the axiomatic script or did I miss something? Is that the 
>>> issue with Combinator that if python source installs scripts you still 
>>> need to install the source in your site-packages? So is Combinator 
>>> still valid or shall I look at things like bzr and use same Twisted 
>>> development method ie of branches?
> Combinator lets you skip the installation step.  I'm not sure if you 
> figured that out or not.
Yeha I did however issue is it doesnt for mantissa (I think) as you need to install to get the axiomatic script (well i think you do cause I couldn't find it in mantissa source?) so I could play arounf with broken tutorials or is aximoatic hidden somewhere diffferent than in Mantissa ?

>  Surprisingly, I'd say that the combinator 
> tutorial (<http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/CombinatorTutorial>) is worth 
> reading, if you haven't seen it already.  Otherwise, perhaps I've 
> totally misunderstood your question. :)
No I got that to work but just had issue above with mantissa

thanks for the prompt reply

> Jean-Paul
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agasson at red-elvis.net

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