<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Oct 22, 2012, at 5:47 AM, Itamar Turner-Trauring <<a href="mailto:itamar@futurefoundries.com">itamar@futurefoundries.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family: Menlo; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">A testing dependency isn't quite as problematic as a regular dependency; you'd only need to install it if you wanted to run Twisted's test suite, which probably most users do not bother with.</div></blockquote><br></div><div>This actually strikes me as a strong counter-argument for adding the dependency and as I'm considering it is pushing me from -0 to -1.</div><div><br></div><div>We already have a couple of problems running the tests when Twisted is system-installed and read-only to the user running the tests. Running the tests is not a special thing that only developers should do in development configurations. It is (well, ought to be, anyway) the way that you figure out if Twisted works on your system. Every user should be encouraged to run the full test suite when submitting a bug report; every system integrator should run the tests before declaring their Twisted package working.</div><div><br></div><div>If we do add a dependency on mock, I would rather users have a slightly more inconvenient installation experience than have them unable to run the tests to figure out what is going on if they have a problem. It should be imported in twisted/__init__.py to make sure that nobody accidentally forgets to install it along with Twisted.</div><div><br></div><div>-glyph</div></body></html>