Hilarious dream-logic (was Re: [Twisted-Python] [patch] (etc)

Terry Jones terry at jon.es
Thu May 18 21:15:40 EDT 2006


>>>>> "glyph" == glyph  <glyph at divmod.com> writes:
glyph> On Thu, 18 May 2006 21:25:07 +0200, Andrea Arcangeli <andrea at cpushare.com> wrote:

>> Overall using twisted for my project was a mistake.
glyph> And yet, and yet, and yet...

Right. That's the part that I find pretty odd. Andrea says that Twisted was
a mistake for him, and that it has one severe/major core design problem:

>>Overall using twisted for my project was a mistake. One major core design
>>problem it has is that it can't pass POLLERR|POLLHUP|POLLNVAL to the poll
>>syscall unless POLLIN/POLLOUT are set too. This means that if I throttle
>>the I/O I can't notice anymore when a disconnect happens. But the severe
>>core design issues it has

But, apparently, Twisted isn't that bad after all. It still seems like it's
worth using. In fact, it's SO good why not FORK THE CODE just so we can
quickly apply a few patches and keep using it?

On top of generally being a pest, not being willing or making/having the
time to follow well-established project guidelines, etc., Andrea decides
not just to continue to use Twisted with a few of his own patches applied
(which would save plenty of time), while putting more energy into getting
his patches integrated, but, instead, to publicly announce a fork, make all
the effort to put it online, set up a mailing list, etc.  That all seems
quite deliberately anti-social and deliberately disruptive and destructive,
rather than constructive. Meanwhile I read that "CPUShare-Twisted will try
to avoid duplication" - why yes, that's an excellent (i.e. belated and
hypocritical) aim for a _forked_ project. It seems that just a little more
effort (and a whole lot less than forking, publicizing, putting it online,
running servers, svn, etc) could have avoided a hell of a lot more
duplication.

On top of this nastiness, repeatedly posting URLs of chat room discussion
between a bunch of developers is pretty silly, and, again, smacks of a
deliberately destructive attitude to a project which you are nevertheless
happy to run off with in a fork. It's not as though the Twisted developers
(of which I am not one) are trying to hide their IRC conversation, is it?
In this day and age it's nice to see some people playing around, even
swearing (oh the shock, the horror, the scandal), and nice to see them even
unashamedly include it in their distribution.

The most fruitful part of this thread, and what I think really makes it
worth otherwise-productive developers spending their time replying, is that
it's nice to see the reaction to Andrea's postings. As someone considering
using Twisted, I find it interesting and encouraging to read this thread -
it gives me increased confidence in Twisted, the people behind it, and the
project in general. So while the thread is a waste for some, there is real
value for others.

My impression is the following: Andrea, having not followed project
guidelines and rules because he doesn't have the time, having not been
treated like a coding God for whom others will naturally rush to do the
mundane tasks in order to receive his patches, and being unwilling to go
the extra few yards to get his patches (eventually) incorporated, is now
using his formerly precious time to go out of his way to undermine the
project.

Terry




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