[Twisted-Python] Fwd: [Twisted-commits] r11721 - revert r11685

[James Y Knight]

Since people who care about web apparently don't read the twisted-web 
mailing list, I'm forwarding the relevant [portions of] messages to 
this mailing list, where they'll hopefully get read before any more 
responses are written on this topic.

James

> From: James Y Knight <foom at fuhm.net>
> Date: September 14, 2004 10:19:14 PM EDT
> Subject: [Twisted-web] Twisted.web2
>
> Itamar and I had dinner today and talked about new-web a bit. Here is 
> what was discussed:
> 1) We need to keep compatibility with old Nevow resources
> 2) We ought to keep compatibility with old twisted.web resources
> 3) The new request API isn't the same as old request API.
> 4) new-web depends on Twisted 2.0. Nevow will be depending on new-web, 
> so the next Nevow will depend on twisted 2.0. Thus it cannot be 
> released until Twisted 2.0. According to itamar the goal for next 
> Twisted release is around halloween, although I hadn't seen that 
> mentioned anywhere before. ;)
> 5) Rumors are Anthony is writing a non-sucky HTTP client. (is this 
> true?). J. Simms (slyphon) mentioned something about writing one to me 
> a few weeks ago but I didn't hear anything after. This should be 
> coordinated so the API for the client and server is as similar as 
> possible.
>
>
> Conclusions for action:
> 1) new-web will be called twisted.web2. I will put what I've got into 
> svn trunk as twisted.web2 tomorrow, assuming no objections. This will 
> allow easy backwards compatibility at the cost of a 2.
> 2) Nevow's resource traversal API must be moved to twisted.web2. This 
> will probably have to be done by branching Nevow to remove those bits. 
> Therefore, the resource traversal part of nevow should be 
> mostly-frozen while this happens.
> 3) For distribution: twisted.web2 depends on Nevow (for static 
> directory listings, and error pages), so will be distributed with it. 
> Nevow recommends Twisted but does not require it for simple cases 
> (e.g. flattening to a string from a CGI script), so there can also be 
> a limited-functionality distribution of standalone Nevow.
>
> Current status of new-web: the low-level HTTP protocol and header 
> parsing is in passable shape. The high-level Resource API needs to be 
> copied over from Nevow (again), because Nevow's API changed. Backwards 
> compatibility adapters for the t.w.Request/nevow.inevow.IRequest and 
> (possibly) nevow.inevow.IResource should be added.
>
> I am not able to do everything myself. I will need help, especially 
> from dp would be helpful for the Nevow transition, to make this 
> happen. If we do it right, twisted.web2 might even be ready in time 
> for the release of Twisted 2.0.
>
> James



> From: William Dode <wilk-ml at flibuste.net>
> Date: September 15, 2004 12:26:08 PM EDT
> Subject: Re: [Twisted-web] Twisted.web2
>
> James Y Knight <foom at fuhm.net> writes:
>> 3) For distribution: twisted.web2 depends on Nevow (for static
>> directory listings, and error pages), so will be distributed with
>> it. Nevow recommends Twisted but does not require it for simple cases
>> (e.g. flattening to a string from a CGI script), so there can also be
>> a limited-functionality distribution of standalone Nevow.
>
> It could be great if the server could not depend on any framework (i
> mean nevow).



> From: James Y Knight <foom at fuhm.net>
> Date: September 15, 2004 1:49:26 PM EDT
> Subject: Re: [Twisted-web] Twisted.web2
>
> On Sep 15, 2004, at 12:26 PM, William Dode wrote:
>> It could be great if the server could not depend on any framework (i
>> mean nevow).
>
> It will use nevow to render the pages the webserver generates, such as 
> errors and directory listings. This does not mean you need to use 
> nevow for your own pages. You can use whatever templating language you 
> want (or none at all) to render your pages, assuming you can hook it 
> up to twisted web somehow.
>
> If you want to make a custom hacked-up copy of twisted.web without 
> Nevow included, it will work, other than default server-generated 
> pages. However, I don't see any reason to not include it by default.



> From: Donovan Preston <dp at ulaluma.com>
> Date: September 15, 2004 2:08:35 PM EDT
> Subject: Re: [Twisted-web] Twisted.web2
>
> On Sep 15, 2004, at 12:26 PM, William Dode wrote:
>> It could be great if the server could not depend on any framework (i
>> mean nevow).
>
> The server would depend on Nevow in order to generate the HTML for 
> various automatically generated pages, such as directory listings. I 
> suggested to James that having a standalone twisted.web server that 
> didn't depend on Nevow and wasn't capable of generating any pages 
> itself would be possible, but James didn't think it was worth the 
> effort.



> From: James Y Knight <foom at fuhm.net>
> Date: September 15, 2004 7:00:08 PM EDT
> Subject: [Twisted-web] Partial freeze of nevow coming up.
>
> Here's the plan. The following modules will be removed from Nevow, and 
> merged/copied/whatever into twisted.web2:
> appserver.py
> static.py
> half of context.py
> dirlist.py
> failure.py
> guard.py
> static.py
> vhost.py
> url.py, perhaps.
>
> I want to create a nevow web2 integration branch, and while they are 
> being removed from Nevow, and merged back into web2, I don't want the 
> Nevow copy radically changing cause that just creates extra work.
>
> So if there's any changes you want to make to any of those, please do 
> it soon. The rest of Nevow can continue changing during the transition 
> without problem.
>
> Sidenote: Divmod needs to approve the relicensing of the code that 
> moves into web2 from nevow under MIT license. Or else move all of 
> Nevow under MIT license.



> From: Donovan Preston <dp at ulaluma.com>
> Date: September 15, 2004 7:22:23 PM EDT
> Subject: Re: [Twisted-web] Partial freeze of nevow coming up.
>
>> Sidenote: Divmod needs to approve the relicensing of the code that 
>> moves into web2 from nevow under MIT license. Or else move all of 
>> Nevow under MIT license.
>
> Moving Nevow to MIT license has already been approved. There is an 
> issue in our RT tracker (which unfortunately nobody else can see) for 
> switching to MIT license, but nobody has gotten time to do it. Anyone 
> with commit access who has some spare time, feel free...